Linda May Han Oh: In Search of Strange Heavens
The bassist behind the chordless trio album ‘Strange ‘Heavens reflects on studying Dave Holland's transcriptions, competing as a Thelonious Monk semifinalist, and learning to be comfortable with her own sound rather than imitating her heroes.
Today we’re putting The Tonearm’s needle on bassist and composer Linda May Han Oh.
Linda’s a Grammy winner who’s recorded with Pat Metheny, Kenny Barron, and Joe Lovano. She was even the model for the bassist character in Pixar’s ‘Soul.’ But it’s her own work that brings us together.
Her latest album, Strange Heaven, explores why we choose familiar hells over strange heavens—why we stick with what we know even when change might save us. It’s a question that cuts through everything from personal relationships to political choices. Linda approaches her albums like journals, each one capturing where she is as an artist and a person. Since becoming a mother, she says her music has become more direct, more distilled—less about ego and more about emotional truth.
She’s here to discuss creative honesty, her work promoting women composers in jazz through the New Standards project, and why making music with emotional directness matters more than ever.
(The musical excerpts heard in the interview are from Linda May Han Oh’s album Strange Heaven)
Dig Deeper
• Visit Linda May Han Oh at lindamayhanoh.com and follow her on Instagram, Facebook, and Bandcamp
• Purchase Linda May Han Oh’s Strange Heavens from Biophilia Recordings, Bandcamp, or Qobuz and listen on your streaming platform of choice
• Linda May Han Oh: Strange Heavens - Album Review on JazzTrail
• NPR Fresh Air: Jazz Bassist Linda May Han Oh on ‘Strange Heavens’
• Linda May Han Oh: Tiny Desk Concert
Previous Albums Referenced:
• Entry (2009) - Linda’s debut album with Ambrose Akinmusire and Obed Calvaire
• The Glass Hours (2023)
• Walk Against Wind (2017)
• Aventurine (2019)
Collaborators:
• Ambrose Akinmusire, trumpet - Featured on Strange Heavens and Entry
• Tyshawn Sorey, drums - Featured on Strange Heavens, MacArthur Fellow and Pulitzer Prize winner
• Fabian Almazan, piano - Linda’s husband and frequent collaborator
• Pat Metheny - Guitarist Linda has toured and recorded with
• Vijay Iyer - Pianist/composer Linda performs with in trio alongside Tyshawn Sorey
Musical Influences:
• Charles Mingus - Mingus Ah Um (1959) was one of Linda’s first jazz albums
• Dave Holland - Linda’s thesis focused on his use of North Indian classical music rhythms
• Ron Carter - Legendary bassist who encouraged Linda at the Thelonious Monk competition
• Paul Chambers - Influential jazz bassist
• Sam Jones - Jazz bassist Linda studied
Educational Institutions:
• Western Australian Academy of Performing Arts - Where Linda studied upright bass (2002)
• Manhattan School of Music - Linda’s master’s degree (2008)
• Berklee College of Music - Where Linda is Associate Professor
• Churchlands Senior High School - Linda’s high school in Perth
Competitions and Awards:
• Thelonious Monk International Jazz Bass Competition (2009) - Linda was a semifinalist
• Jazz Journalists Association Bassist of the Year (2018-2021, 2023-2025)
• 2022 Deutscher Jazz Preis
• Herb Alpert Award (2023)
• Grammy Award winner (2023) - New Standards Vol. 1 with Terri Lyne Carrington
Related Artists Mentioned:
• Michael Mayo, vocalist - Discussed social media with Linda
• Terri Lyne Carrington - Drummer/composer Linda has worked with
• Kenny Barron - Pianist
• Joe Lovano - Saxophonist
• Dave Douglas - Trumpeter/composer
Compositions Discussed:
• “Portal” - About stress from social media
• “Strange Heavens” - Title track exploring the unknown
• “Avalanche” - Composed 2016-2017, about feeling trapped and seeking release
• “Alchemy” - About transformation
• “Living Proof” - Inspired by Linda’s mother
• “Hatchling” - Closing track on The Glass Hours
(This transcript has been lightly edited for clarity.)
Lawrence Peryer: I would like to start by asking you about perhaps the moment or the experience that sparked for you the concept of using the human tendency to choose a familiar hell over strange heavens as an organizing principle for this record.
Linda May Han Oh: I'm not really sure what the moment was that struck me to do that. I've always heard similar sayings such as that and had many conversations about topics like that. I think a lot of the music that I was writing was around the time of election time, so there were a lot of thoughts about the decisions we make when deciding who we want in power, what those decisions entail, and what we as human beings are comfortable with. I think when I think of that phrase—that we often choose a familiar hell—that can pertain to our everyday lives, everyday relationships with people, to bigger picture issues such as having healthcare for everybody or not, or when it comes to changing gun laws. In many ways, I just think sometimes change is hard. Change is hard.
Lawrence: I wanted to use that as the guiding principle, just to make us think a little bit about what our familiar hell looks like and what that strange heaven could be. I think it's good to ask yourself those questions, whether that be in a micro setting of your own community, your own day-to-day lives, or a macro setting.
Lawrence: Something else that I'm curious about as it relates to that construct and how it goes on to manifest in the title of the album—there's kind of two things I wanted to ask you about. One has to do with the actual compositions that make up the album, how themes and philosophy and notions like that make their way and manifest in your compositions. And the other I wanted to ask you about was—this one's maybe a little more fun—there's a little bit of an ironic sense to this because it's a bit of looking back for you in terms of the chordless trio format working with Ambrose, and I wonder, for you as an artist and a creative being, how you can keep this—how you can make sure this is a strange heaven and not a familiar hell when you're revisiting people and formats you've worked in before.
Linda: You know, I tend to think about the whole Heraclitus philosophy of, you'll never really enter the same river twice. It'll always be different, you know? So I think there's a bit of that that just kind of is what it is. Time has changed us all in many ways. A lot has happened since 2008, 2009, when we were recording that record and playing some of that material. So inevitably things are going to be different, and I think for me it is more a statement of where we are now. Like, for example, the first album, the title of it is Entry, and the idea was that it's a journal entry of where I am now. And it's also my entry into the world in the sense that it was my first album as a leader. So I think when we release music, at least when I release music, when I put music out there, for me it's more about saying, this is where I'm at. This is what I'm thinking about. This is what I'm doing with my peers, and this is what I'm interested in. So I'm not so concerned with whether or not it's just as good or better than what I've done in the past. You know, what is that? I hope that people can hear and feel that I'm growing. I certainly feel that way as a musician, that I've grown a lot and I'm a lot more mature and comfortable in my own skin. But, you know, it is what it is, and I love documenting that. And that's why I love recording and putting music and work out there.
Lawrence: How about in terms of the compositions?
Lawrence: Something I was looking forward to talking with you about, or something that was specific about me wanting to speak with you, is I often talk about things like titles with artists, especially instrumental creative music artists, to understand how the titles and the themes they may or may not express relate to the music. As you might imagine, I get a range of answers—there's as many answers as there are artists. I always get a special laugh when an artist is kind of dismissive and says, "Oh, I don't really—you know, the producer named them. I didn't care." I love that. But what I also love, and what I was excited to talk to you about, is you seem to be a little bit on the other end of that—that there is meaning and intention throughout the entire course of a project, if you will. And so I think that's why I would ask you about how the themes that we've talked about so far in this conversation manifest in the music. Like, what role are they playing during the compositional process? Do you sit with a philosophy or a thought and manifest that? Or, at the sake of asking you to dissect your process a little bit—
Linda: One thing that's changed for me in the past several years is that I focus more on the experience of composition than necessarily the nuts and bolts or the ingredients that go into it. And one thing that's really changed my perspective of how I write music is really visualizing what I want to feel if I were sitting front row in my own concert. I think about that. Like, if I were sitting and watching this particular group, what is it that I want to feel and what is it that I want to hear, but feel? What's the energy that I want to bring home from that particular moment? And I think a lot about that. That helps me, first of all, compose and construct those elements that are going to help me feel that way. So I actually imagine, you know, if I were sitting front row at the Vanguard, what is the first song? What do I want to hear, see, or feel from the composition? And with that, I think, comes the emotional element and how that's going to be conveyed through the music. And I love that process because it really makes me think about what the experience is that I want to have and not what anybody else wants to have, because you're going to go crazy trying to imagine what everyone else wants to experience and feel and how they're going to interpret the music and the emotions. And everybody's going to be different, and not everyone's going to like what you do or interpret it the same way. So I think about how I'm going to interpret that and what do I want to feel, and actually visualize and pretend I am there to hear the music. So if I'm sensing a certain feeling, for example, a feeling of catharsis or something, I think about, okay, what does that mean to me if I'm sitting front row and what do I want to hear from that? And from there it can start with a simple sound. It can start with a specific chord. It can start with a melody, it can start with a pitch, it can start with a tempo. And that just opens everything up for me and makes me feel like I don't have any sort of obligations when it comes to creating or writing music. It's just about the present moment and the experience that I want to take away from that particular piece of music.
Lawrence: That's really beautiful. As you were speaking, I was thinking about how exciting and fun and potentially fulfilling it must be when you are thinking about the musicians who you're going to actually have as you're putting together an ensemble or a project, and the idea that in a way you are thinking about what you want to hear that musician play and you're sort of—yeah, it's just really beautiful. If I could assemble some of my favorite players and choose what they all did together, that's a wonderful life.
Linda: Yeah, exactly. And it is fun also just to use your imagination.
Lawrence: That's interesting. Does that imply that there's a certain fun for you, or a certain aspect of this where you might enjoy putting people in different situations than we might expect finding them in?
Linda: Yeah, I guess so. I think I'm lucky to be working with improvising musicians who have navigated so many different spaces and different settings and are comfortable with uncertainty. And I think it's always fun to explore what that uncertainty is. But I often find that with experienced improvising musicians, it's a fun exploration when we're playing in the moment. I'm going to use a surfing analogy because I spend a lot of time surfing. And when you're out there, you're never really sure when a wave's going to hit, what type of set is going to come through. And there's something thrilling about that element of surprise. And I feel like that's what I love about playing improvised music. There's this element of you have your framework, you have your surfboard, and you know what you want to try to do, but you're not sure when the wave's going to come through. And there's something just so exciting about that moment of just grabbing that opportunity and seeing where it takes you. And I love working with people who embrace the thrill of it all, the thrill of improvisation and that element of surprise and making it better, of course.
Lawrence: This is fascinating. I'm going to dovetail what you said. The Heraclitus thing I've always thought about also applies to what you're describing with the surfing analogy, which is—and I think this might actually be another reason why I really wanted to talk to you—there's a—and I wonder if you feel like you've managed, because I struggle with this. Trying to approach all of my life experiences in the moment as if they are unique and they are the first time, because, like the river, it's always flowing. I wonder if playing music helps you or you feel like that experience—sometimes I worry this is cheesy to bring up, but I feel like sometimes I can experience that flow state. Do you feel like your music making helps you develop that muscle or that sense of awareness?
Linda: I think so. I hope so. Certainly, even just with regards to improvising, we're always learning. You're listening to somebody else, you're responding to what they're doing. But you can't be thinking about what you're—if you're trying to strategize about what you're about to play, you actually have to be in the moment and really listening to what's happening. And that also requires you to have these things that you've shed for many hours—the muscle memory or just things that you were getting better at, doing whatever the things that you might be working on—so that they can be in your arsenal when you need them and call upon them. But it has to feel natural and organic in that moment and, to an extent, there's no forethought, or you can't think too far ahead, otherwise you've kind of lost that moment of just being in that space.
Lawrence: Have you always been a surfer?
Linda: Always. Yeah. I think I was in the water probably before I was learning how to walk, because I was from Malaysia, which is on the coast, and I spent most of my childhood growing up in Perth, Western Australia, which is on the coast as well. So between surfing and swimming, I was in the water a lot. Actually, even the reason I started playing bass—I don't often bring this up, but the only reason was because I thought being a double bass player would help my surfing. We would have to travel for some of my competitions. It's a small state of Western Australia, but we would all have to drive maybe three or four hours to go to a competition. And I have two older brothers who were very into sports. So they would be going to a bunch of, like, we'd go every few weeks to a competition in football or basketball. And my mom was like, well, it's kind of important that you have an activity—you're not doing anything. So I was like, well, what can I do that would help? At the time, I was like, I want to do something that would help me with my surfing, and I thought playing the bass would keep me calm because it was very meditative.
Lawrence: I love that.
Linda: Yeah, it was kind of a by-product. I was like, I don't want to be a professional musician; I want to be a pro surfer. That was like a childhood thing. But yeah, it was a bit of an accidental career.
Lawrence: That is super-delightful. Do you remember when you first heard or watched—it could have been a live concert, it could have been a recording—the sound of an upright bass or someone playing one in a group, where it actually made an impression on you?
Linda: What I will say is, when I started playing bass guitar, it was also in conjunction with taking up the bassoon. So I was playing the bassoon because I wanted to be in the Western Australia Youth Orchestra. And I learned the bassoon because they needed bassoonists, so that I could be part of the string ensemble that they had but also perform with the orchestra. And what's interesting is I think just hearing a lot of low register instruments, whether it was tuba or cello or bass clarinet, I just loved all those low register instruments. So when my bass teacher, Nicole Slatter, who was my jazz bass teacher, mentioned, you know, have you thought about playing upright bass? I thought it was, like, that's a cool—the lowest thing. It's like the lowest instrument, so I was quite excited about that. And I'd heard recordings of Charles Mingus and Dave Holland when I first took up the bass, and I just loved that sound. It sounded so deep and rich and woody, and I really wanted to work at that instrument.
Lawrence: Do you remember if you heard Mingus Ah Um or Charles Mingus, or do you remember what the first record was that got played for you?
Linda: I just remember getting a boxed set. I don't remember what album it was, but it was like a boxed set of Charles Mingus. And the other—oh, the first Charles Mingus album I got was actually Ah Um. So I got those two, and then I got a four-CD set of Dave Holland, which was quite exciting. And I heard so many different styles, like jazz fusion, all these different types of sounds, and it was just—I was like, wow, this is incredible.
Lawrence: So then thinking back to that, from that—gosh, you've really come full circle in terms of the things you've had opportunity to do and the musicians you got to work with, the opportunities—making your own statements. But when I think about how you described the childhood—even when you had some inklings that you might be able to pursue music in a serious way, I imagine there was lots of doubt and uncertainty. So now, given where you are and what you do, looking back at like a high school version of Linda, what's something—what advice would you give her? What would you want to tell her?
Linda: What advice would I give that version of me? I guess I'd say embrace failure. Don't be afraid to fail and just keep trying, and don't take rejection so personally. Just get back up and keep going, because there was a lot of rejection early on.
Lawrence: Really? Can you tell me an example of that? Like, who would reject you?
Linda: Well, I mean, for starters, I mean, I think the main thing was I never thought I was—I didn't grow up knowing that you can make a career being a musician. There were no musicians in my family, and everyone would tell me from my family, it's cute that you play music, but you need to figure out what you're going to do. And I think in Asian families, it's kind of what you do. You do something else—
Lawrence: You need a real job.
Linda: Yeah, exactly. This is great—you have a hobby, which is wonderful, and it's great to have interests, but you need to really think about your future. I never thought that music was something I could do. So even when I was at school, I was doing science courses, thinking I was going to be a doctor or go into something health-related. So I was in between music school and medical school, and I'd already gotten in for medical school in Australia at the time. I was just like, maybe I'll just try to apply for music school and if it doesn't work out, I'll go into medical school. So I think there was a lot of voices around me that were like, this is not a real thing to do. And then I think also, when I got here, you know, just auditions—I failed many auditions to get into a lot of programs and scholarships that I wanted to apply for. The competition semifinal, like the Thelonious Monk competition, I did not place—I was a semifinalist. But it was incredibly humbling to see how great a lot of my colleagues and peers are. There's so many great bass players around. And I had to really think about, well, what is my sound? Who am I? Am I comfortable with me? And I was not. And it took me a little while to get comfortable with myself, and I think, you know, that's something that I've gotten comfortable with, but it took a while to realize I can't be somebody else. I have to just be me. And I'm not always going to be somebody's cup of tea, and not everyone's going to like my playing, and that's fine. I can't, you know—I just have to be me.
Lawrence: The interesting thing with that, at least from—I mean, hopefully for people listening, too, but for me listening to you say that—when I think about the thing you described earlier about the compositional process, visualizing the experience you want to have—all of that feels very directly connected to having gotten to a place where you're comfortable with yourself, you know who you are as a musician. And so while at the time, of course, experiencing rejection is awful and you question yourself and all those things, now you can look back at that and just know this is what you needed to experience to get to a place to do the work you're doing today.
Linda: Absolutely. And, you know, there's so many people that I'm so grateful to who encouraged me to keep going. I think one of those times was when I did the Monk competition. I wasn't—I mean, I knew I didn't place, but Ron Carter came up to me and was very encouraging after I played. I felt like I didn't play my best, and I was very disappointed by my performance. And he was just very kind and said some very kind words, and that made me keep going. And I think from that, you know, I have to recognize that there are so many people that I haven't met but also folks that have offered a kind word at just the right time when you felt like, maybe I should give up, you know? Or maybe I should just—
Lawrence: I know this isn't sort of a direct follow-up, but I'm curious, do you remember what he said?
Linda: I wish I could remember. I probably suppressed it or something, or I'm just trying—I can't for the life of me remember what he said. But I know it was just that he said something along the lines of, you know, just keep going, keep working at it. Just the fact that he said anything, just—he didn't have to. And he came up and he was, you know, he said it in a way where I knew he meant it, and he was being genuine, and that really—I took that to heart.
Lawrence: And I know a little bit about your background in terms of training, you know, and just your path. One of the things that struck me and that I'm just very curious about is the thesis that you wrote about Dave Holland's use of North Indian classical music in his improvisation. I wonder first if you remember what it was that put you onto that in the first place.
Linda: I guess so. You know, I think one of the things I felt when I was in jazz school was I was spending a lot of hours in the practice room playing a lot of bebop language, bebop lines, and I was really trying to sound like—I loved Paul Chambers, I loved Sam Jones, all of that, you know, Ron Carter—and really work hard at that, and I was obsessed with all these amazing bass players. But I got to a certain point where I was just like, I feel like I'm really just trying so hard to be somebody else. I have this whole other life outside of—I've listened to so much music that isn't just in the jazz sphere. How can I find a way to bring it all in, in my own way? I can't be Paul Chambers or Sam Jones, but how can I find things that maybe they did that—you know, I can work on that and develop that but keep my own sound? And so I was looking for bass players who, I felt, had this international feel to their sound, and I was also very interested in rhythmic devices. And Dave Holland's solos—his compositional style, his solos—he has a real sense of rhythm and time and all these different things, rhythmic motifs that are very interesting. And I was like, I wonder if some of these ideas come from rhythmic cycles. And then I read an interview where he mentioned North Indian classical music and the rhythmic cycles in Indian classical music, and I was like, huh, I wonder. So I started reading more about that and learning more about it, and I was like, I see some of these patterns that seem to be similar to the tabla cycles and the rhythmic cycles. And then I reached out to Dave, and I asked him to send me a lot of transcriptions, and he was kind enough to do that. And then I just went at it and I kept transcribing and figuring it all out. What I really found was that what he did—or what I saw in his work that I thought was so interesting—was he would take these ideas that come from this classical music tradition but then make them his own. And I think that was a way that I started to realize that's what we can do. You can study different traditions, learn them, respect them, but then find your own way to bring it into what you do and your own creativity. You're not just, you know—you're respecting the tradition, you're learning from it, but it's yours.
Lawrence: I want to go back to something you said earlier. You said when you're composing and you're thinking about the experience you want to have sitting there listening, you know, front row at the Vanguard, you think a lot about what you want to feel. And I'm wondering with this album—and maybe you've already told me this and I'm not quite putting it together—but what did you—when you think of these compositions and when you think about this album, what did you want to feel or what were you trying to feel?
Linda: I think a lot of it was catharsis, honestly. There was a lot of feeling trapped at times and feeling like—and wanting to come out of that feeling, wanting to feel release. And so I think a lot of the music on the album is very much trying to—for me, anyway—trying to find a path of release. And I think there's a lot of intensity. I think you will hear the intensity and there's also hopefulness, you know? So it goes through these different moods of like, there's anxiety, there's release, there's hope. And I wanted it to feel—I didn't want the music to just be one thing. I wanted to hear, feel all of it because that's how I was feeling at the time.
Lawrence: I know there's a particular sort of story with the composition "Avalanche" that kind of relates to this, and I would love if you would indulge me and talk a bit about that particular composition because I think it kind of illustrates what you're talking about.
Linda: Yeah. So, you know, "Avalanche"—if I remember the note I wrote correctly—I just remember writing this piece and it was at a time where I just felt a little trapped. I felt like I had so much to say and do, and I couldn't figure out how to. It was right around the time when my son was getting a little older, and I realized, like, oh wow, the window of opportunity to spend time with him is very small. You know, they grow up really fast. I blinked and all of a sudden he's four years old. And I was also seeing how the world was changing around the time—this was around 2016, 2017, when a lot of the music was being written—and just feeling this real sense of helplessness of, like, I want to do more, I want to—how do I make the world better for my son? And there was a real anxiety and frustration around that. And I started writing this piece, and I realized that in some ways, I was just kind of holding it all in. And so I started writing something that had this intensity to it, and it keeps building and building, and I just wanted it to feel like this avalanche, you know—everything that was in me just coming out. And that's where that piece came from.
Lawrence: I had a similar experience listening to it. I just want you to know that. You know, sometimes as a listener you hear a piece and you think, I wonder what that's about, or you imagine—but I really did feel, I really felt that. And I think it's a—it works. It comes through.
Linda: Well, thank you.
Lawrence: That actually brings me to a question I wanted to ask you, which is about the band and how Ambrose and Tyshawn respond. Because if you're writing from this place where you're—it's deeply personal and you're expressing things that are coming from inside you—the interesting and magical thing in a band setting is that you then have other people who are tasked with bringing life to this work that is so personal. And I wonder how—I mean, obviously you trust them and that's why they're there. But I wonder how you experience that and how they respond to being asked to bring life to something that's yours in that way.
Linda: I think—you know, this might sound like a cop-out, but I think the fact that they're improvising, they get to bring themselves to it. And I think that's why I love working with improvisers because they're bringing their whole life experience to that moment when we're playing that tune. And I can't control what they do, and I don't want to control what they do. I want them to be able to bring their own emotional state, their own thoughts. And the way that they respond to what I wrote, it's going to be different every night. One night, Tyshawn might hear something really aggressive, the next night he might hear something more hopeful. And Ambrose might hear something totally different. And I think that's the beauty of improvisation—is that we're all bringing our own perspective. And that's what makes it a conversation. That's what makes it collaborative. It's not me dictating to them what to do. I'm providing a framework, a structure, and they're bringing their voice to it. And I love that because I think, you know, they make it better. They make the music so much better than I could have imagined.
Lawrence: That is beautiful. I love that. And I think it also speaks to your trust in them and your comfort with who you are as a musician and as a creative being—that you're not trying to control every aspect of it.
Linda: Yeah, I think, you know, if I wanted to control it completely, I wouldn't be playing improvised music. I'd probably be, I don't know, doing something else. But I think the whole point of this music is that it's a dialogue. It's a conversation. And you have to be willing to let go and trust your bandmates and trust that they're going to take care of the music and bring something special to it.
Lawrence: I want to ask you about a couple of the other compositions on the album. "Strange Heavens"—the title track—I'm curious about that one because it obviously relates to the overarching theme we've been talking about.
Linda: Yeah, "Strange Heavens" was—I think the idea behind that piece was, you know, that phrase, "better the devil you know." And I think we often do that. We often choose what's familiar even if it's not good for us, because the unknown is scary. And I think with that piece, I wanted to explore that feeling of the unknown. Like, what is that strange heaven? What could it be? And there's a sense of curiosity in that piece, but also trepidation. Like, should I go there? Is it safe? And I think that's kind of what I was trying to capture. And the way the melody moves, it's got this kind of searching quality to it. It's looking for something, but it's not quite sure what it's going to find.
Lawrence: And "Alchemy"—that's another one I'm curious about.
Linda: "Alchemy" is—I think that piece is about transformation. You know, the idea of taking something and changing it into something else. And I think we were talking earlier about how we're all changing, we're all evolving. And I think that piece is really about that process of transformation. And musically, the way it's structured, it goes through these different sections that feel very different from each other, but they're all connected. And I think that was the idea—to show that transformation isn't always linear. It's not always smooth. Sometimes it's jarring, sometimes it's surprising, but you come out the other side as something different.
Lawrence: And then there's "Portal," which we talked about a little bit earlier in terms of the technology and the social media aspect. But I'm curious if there's more to that piece that you want to talk about.
Linda: Yeah, I mean, "Portal" is definitely about technology and our devices and how we're all kind of living in this virtual world now. But it's also about connections. You know, even though we're physically apart, we're connected through these devices. And I think there's something both beautiful and terrifying about that. Like, we can connect with people all over the world instantly, but at the same time, we're losing that face-to-face human connection. And I think that piece tries to explore both sides of that—the beauty and the terror of it.
Lawrence: It's interesting because when you describe these pieces, there's this constant tension between opposing forces. Like, there's hope and anxiety, there's connection and isolation, there's the familiar and the unknown. And I think that's what makes the album so compelling, is that you're not trying to resolve those tensions. You're just exploring them.
Linda: Yeah, exactly. I think, you know, life is full of those tensions. We don't have all the answers. We're all just trying to figure it out. And I think that's what I wanted the album to reflect—that we're all in this together, trying to navigate these contradictions and tensions. And there's no easy answer.
Lawrence: That's really beautiful. I think that's a perfect way to think about it.
Lawrence: I get it now. And tell me about "Portal." I think the sort of commentary or the attempt to address what I think we could all understand—the shorthand around what our technology and our devices and our social media has done. And you mentioned the election, and when you mentioned 2008 earlier, what came into my head was how that was a lifetime ago. And it was a different universe. I mean, not even a different world, a different universe, governed by what seemed like different rules.
Lawrence: I'm curious—you know, I have to make an assumption to ask this question, so please feel free to pull away even the base assumption behind the question—but I would think that as someone who does the kind of work you do, and I think of it as almost having a small-business-person aspect to it, right? Like, you are very much in charge of your career, whether you have people around you who help and do specialized work or not. How do you protect yourself and however you describe the space you need to be in to be creative—whether it's contemplative or quiet or whatever? How do you protect your sort of psychic and creative space when you have to actually use these platforms as part of your career?
Linda: Absolutely. You know, it's something I'm still figuring out. Everyone in the business, you're constantly getting messages from promoters and agents—we need to plug this gig, we need to do this. And I somewhat envy some of the people that I know who are quite savvy with social media and quite good with that part of the business. Part of that is because it's something that really does not come natural to me. It's still something that I think a lot of musicians, a lot of artists, are figuring out, especially of my generation. Maybe the younger ones are a bit more savvy, but for me it's just about preserving my own artistic integrity and doing what's necessary and spending as little time as I need to on that front. I'm quite good friends with wonderful vocalist Michael Mayo, who's very good at—we've spoken about this, about the social media aspect. I think it was great to hear him speak about just the idea of creating—the emphasis on creating art. And if you want to put it out there, great. And not reading your self-worth through what is put out there. And I've had many conversations with students and up-and-coming musicians about that—about how to stay healthy, how to maintain your artistic integrity. And I think so much of it boils down to having a good community and a good support base. And I think what's beautiful about the work that we do is that it's so nice that we can have those hours creating music, rehearsing music, listening to music without having to have a device. I don't take that for granted. Yeah, I think that's ultimately what it comes down to—your community and your support base. And knowing that also there's a certain degree that it's not reality, you know? What's on your device and that whole virtual world, it is not the be-all and end-all.
Lawrence: It's interesting too that, you know, you're in a field where you don't have to—it's not your—it's not the primary part of your job. There's so many people who are at the machine all day because it's what they—you know, it's just part of their gig. When you are actually doing your primary job, it's actually a requirement for you to not be at the device. And to be present somewhere else. And that to me is—
Linda: Absolutely.
Lawrence: It's quite a luxury in 2025.
Linda: Absolutely. And I count myself so lucky. We get to travel and meet people, meet people from all different places, and have those connections, and not everybody gets that privilege. Yeah.
Lawrence: There's so much intention behind your music and there's so much intention and emotional content in this album, whether it's finding hope and inspiration or confronting anxieties about the world we're leaving and creating for our children. And I wonder—maybe a slightly smaller question, but I'm curious how it lands for you as your own son starts to get a little bit older. What would you like him to understand about the music you make and sort of the role that being a creative being plays in your life? You know, assuming that there'll be different points—I was going to ask you, when he's old enough to ask—but there's no such thing. Children always surprise us. He may start asking at preschool age and ask again every year, who knows? But I'm curious—instilling sort of the value of a life of creativity is sort of what I'm getting at.
Linda: Hmm. What do I hope that he will bring from the music?
Lawrence: Yeah. What would you hope he comes to understand? Like, my father was a policeman.
Lawrence: And so I learned certain things about his worldview and his values. Not everything, but certain things. I would've learned something completely different about him had he been a bass player. (laughter)
Lawrence: And a composer.
Lawrence: And so I wonder what insight you hope this will instill for, you know, your son. What would you like your child, or someday children, to understand about you?
Linda: Yeah, so I think I would have to say two main things. The first one is the importance of community. You know, I think he is likely going to be an only child, and I want him to experience this wider community of musicians, of artists, and watch how we come together, whether it be to hang out and talk about music or just hang out and play music. And one thing I'm proud of—he is only four years old, but he has met so many musicians and seen us in so many different situations with other musicians—and just the wider community and knowing that there's a strong community. We don't all have to live in the same place. We don't always have to come from the same backgrounds, and the value of community. And then on top of that, I would say the value of imagination. So we talk about it a lot, and he inspires me so much when it comes to imagination, of just envisaging what is past. What can we create together? How can we create a connection together and strive for better?
